tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36649445.post8992731885218084568..comments2023-03-14T06:56:21.208-07:00Comments on The Relevant Parsha: A Series of Inexplicable EventsRabbi Yisroel Gordonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06732599880950749051noreply@blogger.comBlogger2125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36649445.post-12526540424294945792007-12-16T14:40:00.000-08:002007-12-16T14:40:00.000-08:00Naftoli-"To say that God was with Yosef does not i...Naftoli-<BR/><BR/>"To say that God was with Yosef does not imply that Yosef was aware of this fact."<BR/><BR/>Agreed.<BR/><BR/>"the juxtapositions in 39:2-3 are two loosely related facts- not that the later is the manifestation of the former"<BR/><BR/>"loosely related"? Come on! The text could not be clearer.<BR/><BR/>"To be sure, I would not be surprised were God "more" with Yosef because of his faith... However, faith would hardly seem to be a prerequisite for Providence in the normal course of events."<BR/><BR/>It is precisely this hightened level of providence that I am wondering about.<BR/><BR/>As for your suggestion that Yosef ascribed his ideas to God as a ploy to enhance/protect his own position, Ralbag (in the To'elesim) to 41:16 says as much. However, I am doubtful that it is p'shat to view Yosef as some kind of political televangelist. <BR/><BR/>I stand by my two questions. Thank you for your challenging comments!Rabbi Yisroel Gordonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06732599880950749051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36649445.post-5096236599075413292007-12-13T16:49:00.000-08:002007-12-13T16:49:00.000-08:00I would venture that while either of the two quest...I would venture that while either of the two questions posed at the end could be answered in the affirmative, I find both questions to be odd and unrelated.<BR/><BR/>First question first: To say that God was with Yosef does not imply that Yosef was aware of this fact. It simply means that God was doing things with purposes in Mind which required certain events to take place. It certainly does not mean that all the steps along Yosef's path would be pleasant ones (the juxtapositions in 39:2-3 are two loosely related facts- not that the later is the manifestation of the former; surely the wealth distribution in your town drives this home).<BR/><BR/>As to the second question: Both faith and Providence are intertwined with each other and complicated in their own rights. To be sure, I would not be surprised were God "more" with Yosef because of his faith (along the lines of Ramchal, say). However, faith would hardly seem to be a prerequisite for Providence in the normal course of events. <BR/><BR/>Stepping back for a minute, wouldn't Yosef be advancing his own position were he to ascribe his own powers to God rather than to intelligence? Every intelligent man at some point will fall short in the face of a complex world and his utility to others will be limited. A man of God however, faces no such limitation. While I do not mean to question Yosef's faith, I cannot understand why it is remarkable that he ascribes his ideas to God.<BR/><BR/>Finally if Yosef believes himself to be more in the line of his forebears that his brothers, their behavior should not weaken his faith or resolve.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for another thought-provoking post!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com